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Messages - Wind

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 610
1
General / Re: Who are your celebrity crushes
« on: Today at 08:52 PM »
also alexandria ocasio cortez

2
General / Re: So were now a toxic community...
« on: Today at 08:46 PM »
SPLODE wind

3
General / Re: Who are your celebrity crushes
« on: Today at 08:30 PM »
^ this

4
General / Re: Who are your celebrity crushes
« on: Today at 08:28 PM »
the DUDE WHO PLAYED LIP GALLAGHER IN SHAMELESS

5
General / Re: Opinion for opinion
« on: Today at 08:24 PM »
You seem like a nice enough person, I kept mistaking you for theundead for a while and I'm not sure why. You seem like you get angry a bit too quickly and come off as very standoffish but I can't really fault you too much because I'm like that too. I use to have a very negative opinion of you but interacting with you a bit on discord has evened it out a bit. You haven't really done anything particularly bad to make me dislike you, although there's a lot of little things that itch me the wrong way but I'm sure thats just because I like to judge people lmao you're pretty fun to talk to when the topic steers faraway from anything too controversial

I also disagree with your politics vehemently but that's for another time

6
General / Re: The Swedish Culture
« on: July 06, 2018, 07:06 AM »
I know this is an old thread and whatnot, but do you have any dangerous close encounters with Muslims?
I know a Muslim girl. She's brown and wears a funny scarf :/ Idk much else about her but she seems very dangerous. What do I do? Should I report her?

7
well unlike our gusty friend here im not a communist so this irrelevant to me

however i think my comparison is more accurate
yeah but you are a liberal so therefor you're a communist anyways

8
genocide ethnostates colonialism apartheid its all the same

9
as a third generation boer-american immigrant i think that they should be attacked more often

10
Debate Tower Sanctuary / test
« on: July 03, 2018, 12:11 AM »
Capital punishment; one of the most severe punishments sanctioned by law and thereby a defiance to human rights (...) It’s an unintelligent decision, wherein about 60% of all countries is consumed into, partly working or not working, it’s their case, more or less subjective. But objectively, financially and judicially, a death penalty is civil, judicially correct, extremely deterrent, cost-effective(excluding the court procedures),  and many more, even to the extent of defying its criticism nailed down by the abolitionists.
Alright, so right off the bat here: this is a minor point but I think it's rather disingenuous to not include the court procedure costs. Assuming that your argument is predicated on a fair and free trial, a trial in which the death penalty is delivered is going to be more expensive. The trials last longer, more prosecuters and attorneys are needed, and capital convictions will usually go through several levels of appeal within the court system. This is a sizable amount of both taxpayer and private cash. Again, mostly a nitpick, but disingenuous. Can't really say there's anything else in this section to pick apart because I can't understand what half of it means and the other half is utterly unsubstantiated as I'm assuming you will expand on it.

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Capital punishment, being abolished is vastly quite objectional and futile, taking into account the cases where death sentences are implemented, that is, capital or grave offences, including treason, murder, rape, espionage, former radical methods of murder, war offence, etc. Hence, lawfully it is cast upon offenders of such great crimes with no proper feasibility of improvement. While in cases where the chances are found, life imprisonment is awarded. So, there shouldn't be any dispute over this case, or plight for humanity as the offender on whom this is employed is in no condition, humane or reasonable to be pardoned. Atonement and regret always get taken to regard in court procedures, and there hence the punishment is deployed. Also, most cases take about 15+ years to be undertaken, with the offender while on death row, plunging into every method to escape it. During these years only punishment can be reduced. Nonetheless, the death penalty opts as the last ways to penalize- as readily accepted by the police. So definitely death penalty need not be abolished or questioned for being unrighteous or unreligious(in some cases), and thus be undetained.

Hence, lawfully it is cast upon offenders of such great crimes with no proper feasibility of improvement. While in cases where the chances are found, life imprisonment is awarded.
Okay, so to make sure I'm not unintentionally misconstruing your argument here: you're essentially saying that the death penalty ought to be reserved for folks that have "no proper feasibility of improvement", correct?

 This is a strange statement to me, because in many cases, people with plenty of "feasibility of improvement" are executed. A sizable number of people executed are found to be completely innocent. But beyond that, I have to ask: how do you measure "feasibility of improvement"? That seems like an incredibly arbitrary and subjective thing to measure, and especially to stake somebody's entire life on.

Atonement and regret always get taken to regard in court procedures, and there hence the punishment is deployed. Also, most cases take about 15+ years to be undertaken, with the offender while on death row, plunging into every method to escape it. During these years only punishment can be reduced. Nonetheless, the death penalty opts as the last ways to penalize- as readily accepted by the police. So definitely death penalty need not be abolished or questioned for being unrighteous or unreligious(in some cases), and thus be undetained.
I'm having such a hard time figuring out what you're trying to say. My response to this is: yes, the death penalty can be reduced when the courts deem it appropriate. But I find that ultimately irrelevant to the discussion. Can you please articulate how this proves that the death penalty is not "unrighteous or unreligious"? I can't figure out how this is actually a defense of the practice because literally every punishment works in this way. Capital punishment is generally deemed "unrighteous" because the taking of a life cannot is ultimate and irreversible, and it is generally deemed "unreligious" because it entails man being the arbitrator of life and death in place of God. Neither of those are really the arguments I would make, but you brought them up and utterly failed to address them in any meaningful capacity.

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Let’s imagine a world without death penalty:
A normal person standing on some bus-stop gets murdered by a serial-killer, who gets through life-imprisonment for 20 years. Kills every policeman, again 40 years in prison, he or someone else kills everyone all together, 60 years both,  this would keep on rising in arithmetic progression with no stop to it, as the world will be left with serial killers and the jail, with perpetrators. Either way, the world would be filled with jails and asylums everywhere. (Opposite can also happen, but a bit improbable to think, if we relate to our animal instincts).

 ... uh can you actually prove this claim?

 So, trying to piece together your argument here, you're effectively arguing that, without capital punishment, people are liable to commit strings of policeman murders and rack up increasingly long sentences? We have prisons designed specifically to contain high-risk offenders that have an incredibly low escape rate. It isn't something new: we know how to prevent situations like this. I'm also confused by the idea of a 20-year life sentence :|

If you would give an example of other countries that have abolished this already with no such consequences? The answer is: Would be in some decades, possibly.

 Yea I don't buy this. There's not a concrete argument here: you're literally just saying "possibly". There are plenty of examples of countries abolishing the death penalty long, long ago without having a serious spike in violent crime. Iceland, for example, had its last execution was in 1830, and they formally abolished it in 1928 yet I can't find any documentation of a serial killer murdering "every policeman" after being imprisoned. I think 188 years is time enough.

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There have been more than 20 people executed in spite of being innocent?         
Well, this could be because of an error being crept in the legal proceedings, or due to some interference of the state. Well, there are various mistakes in law, which needs to be amended. But, this conviction has been exemplary in countries where the State has the right to interfere in judicial matters, or they could have invaded it. Such conditions, though precisely de facto are the supreme cause for such injustice. As an instance- Countries with rigid judicial laws have had no such case. There may have been a delay but no incurrence of injustice. Example- most cases are from U.S., Australia, U.K. and China, where the states had invaded into the cases or the judiciary wasn’t apt. While in some, improper justification from media or guardian’s opinions is taken into account for calling them unjust. Concurrently, the mistake is of the state or the judiciary. Also, many innocent people die every day, this is not something to call death penalty unlawful. The exercise of the miscellaneous power of ‘Judicial Review’, helps to later correct such errors, preventing further miscarriage. Again, the state’s mistake if this hasn’t been prescribed within the constitution.
...

Well, this could be because of an error being crept in the legal proceedings, or due to some interference of the state. Well, there are various mistakes in law, which needs to be amended. But, this conviction has been exemplary in countries where the State has the right to interfere in judicial matters, or they could have invaded it. Such conditions, though precisely de facto are the supreme cause for such injustice. As an instance- Countries with rigid judicial laws have had no such case. There may have been a delay but no incurrence of injustice. Example- most cases are from U.S., Australia, U.K. and China, where the states had invaded into the cases or the judiciary wasn’t apt. While in some, improper justification from media or guardian’s opinions is taken into account for calling them unjust. Concurrently, the mistake is of the state or the judiciary.

 So to sum this up here: your argument is that mistakes in the application of capital punishment occur because of an imbalanced government without an independent judiciary? Okay, so I want to, again, ask you to back this up. Can you give me some examples of countries that apply this properly? Also, I would like to draw attention to the fact that two of the four nations you listed as examples of nations that frequently misapply the death penalty (Australia and the U.K.)... have abolished the death penalty. Huh. That makes me a bit skeptical.

Also, many innocent people die every day, this is not something to call death penalty unlawful. The exercise of the miscellaneous power of ‘Judicial Review’, helps to later correct such errors, preventing further miscarriage. Again, the state’s mistake if this hasn’t been prescribed within the constitution.

 You keep saying that it's the states fault, but have you ever considered that, maybe, if the state's judiciary is consistently misapplying the death penalty, maybe it shouldn't have that power to begin with? You don't seem to have a lot of faith in the state's ability to not make mistakes when killing people, so why do you support their ability to do so?

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Capital punishment is immoral, why to support it?                                                     
It’s NOT till it is being employed correctly by solely the judiciary or any unbiased faction locally present. The offences of the offenders are in fact immoral. Humans are responsible for their own actions, they know what is right or wrong(except for the some being psychopath or brainwashed), and hence should be held responsible for the grave crimes they commit, liable for punishment extending up to the death penalty. Also, reiterating the statement: that it is given for unforgiving cases only; most other horrendous acts are subjected to life imprisonment. Capital punishment is moral as it relieves the burden of such criminal, immoral, callous minds from the society, which is in fact moral enough to be accepted. Prison is a place for punishment, rehabilitation and isolation, but loses its value of ‘rehabilitation and isolation’ in this account, and should be deliberately in the case of mad-people, psychos, serial killers committed for capital offences; getting them executed by hanging, electrocution, injection, shooting, etc, for these people would only fill up the seats of asylums and prisons eating away the taxpayer’s cost at hand. However, the death penalty helps to relieve the workload and population in the prison and comply for the taxpayer’s losses.

...

The offences of the offenders are in fact immoral. Humans are responsible for their own actions, they know what is right or wrong(except for the some being psychopath or brainwashed), and hence should be held responsible for the grave crimes they commit, liable for punishment extending up to the death penalty. (...) Capital punishment is moral as it relieves the burden of such criminal, immoral, callous minds from the society, which is in fact moral enough to be accepted.
Yes, and life imprisonment also removes those burdens from the greater society. That's the only actual argument you've made here. Beyond that, everything is extraordinarily vague ("and hence should be held responsible for the grave crimes they commit": yes, but why the death penalty specifically?).

Prison is a place for punishment, rehabilitation and isolation, but loses its value of ‘rehabilitation and isolation’ in this account, and should be deliberately in the case of mad-people, psychos, serial killers committed for capital offences; getting them executed by hanging, electrocution, injection, shooting, etc, for these people would only fill up the seats of asylums and prisons eating away the taxpayer’s cost at hand. However, the death penalty helps to relieve the workload and population in the prison and comply for the taxpayer’s losses.


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States should not have such rights, because we can’t take or give life? And unreligious?                                                             Utterly ridiculous. The criminal itself has taken life, and thus shouldn’t be pardoned,  unless in special cases of course. Nevertheless, even we all take lives, lives of animals! When an animal does wrong, it’s taken down, why then for humans. Offenders should be equivalent. A simple idea- People- If you can’t give life, why take it. Judiciary- We can spare your life and in a way save it, also we can make you atone for them and in a way take ‘em. Satisfying answer right.

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How are such punishments cost-effective where they cost about 54% of total penalization-related expenditure in America?            Mainly due to the legal proceedings which can’t be helped. Also this, in turn, helps to prove innocence or guilt. Although, a brief comparison between the net worth of life-imprisonment to death penalty including the legal records and assemblages, shows a ratio of  3:1, considering the whole world. Particularly, in some countries, death-row inmates are hardly taken care of, besides food, and quick justice within a span of 20 years is awarded. So, altogether it is truly cost-effective.

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Thus, capital punishment needs to exist, for the inexcusable crimes, regardless of how destructive it is. What could be reconsidered is- abolishment of penalty by electrocution, beheading, shooting and all sorts eccentric ways practised in places and replacing them with more humane ones like hanging and lethal injections. By and large, the death penalty is carried on under special conditions and is effective towards the reduction of crimes. This could be noted more the crime index chart(2018)- where crime rates are relatively and comparatively less for practising countries, with Japan at the last, standing as the safest country- thus, showing the effect of capital punishment as a deterrent, that too when it is less encouraged. If its presence were to be increased, possible increase in crime reduction could definitely be noted. At the present moment, it serves as an effective tool to linger and foil the to-be criminal mindset or potential of the youths and adolescent, who fear such possibilities of punishment the most. Various example can be found to show the fear of the to-be-executed: Such as the Chinese show: Interview before execution- where the fear of the convicts can be noted, and their desperate desire to flee, as well as repentance, their emptiness can be seen all around; while though some still remain blatant and violent as their deed, subsequently breaking down and crying at the time of execution. So execution is one of the best ways to build repentance in an offender, which deems definite regret for their crimes into their minds, while repentance through imprisonment is variable and truly is of no use. American leaks of electrocution along with the record of 40 years in death row; gives us substantial proof to validate death penalty as an extreme deterrent. Indian cases of Ganga-Billa and the infamous kidnapping, pick-pocketing, multi-murders case(Gravit case) got revealed due to skilled interrogation and threatening of a death penalty by the police. So, with capital punishment being regarded as both de jure and de facto; crimes can be reduced extensively. Though incorrect in the light of humanity, Saudi Arabia’s execution by beheading has proved a lot effective against foreign criminals. Similarly, North Korea’s default death sentence has been a constitutional preserver for a decade.
                         
             
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Relating to this the government should maintain this provision, despite the criticism that comes around. To please the public, execution via electrocution and as aforementioned must be abolished, in the prominent states. Some tricks like guerilla tactics on the stand of the death penalty can be used to prevent crimes, wherein the cops could threaten the offenders to surrender or they’ll be executed on capture for law-breaking, in some encounter(only for high-ranked offenders). This was effective in the city of Lucknow, India; where a number of low to high-rank criminals surrendered(after some instances of execution(encounter) had been undertaken). Putting everything together, the death penalty is quite necessary in today’s world, to evade crime, deter crimes and judge crimes. It just needs to be manipulated correctly, with cases being followed under a fair judiciary, and justice implored and correctly imparted.

12
General / Re: swaziland changed its country name to eswatini
« on: June 28, 2018, 11:41 AM »
didn't macedonia become north macedonia like a week ago

13
Well, that sounds good. But could you please summarize the instructions for me in a sentence and two? If it's not so bothersome, as I honestly am too lazy to read it all :p
how do you expect to debate if you cant read the instructions

14
General / Re: the truth about apods and i's relationship...
« on: June 19, 2018, 10:05 PM »
he doms btw

15
General / the truth about apods and i's relationship...
« on: June 19, 2018, 10:01 PM »

16
all of you (except apod) are amazing people who shouldn't feel self conscious about this omg

but yes i relate

17
Personal Exhibition / Re: Pictures of people on sploder
« on: June 17, 2018, 04:52 PM »
:|

18
General / Re: on a more wholesome note
« on: June 15, 2018, 06:58 PM »
cat. cat. cat. thank my cat.

19
General / Re: A video about Monday
« on: June 15, 2018, 06:27 PM »
 I am glad that you admitted to your faults, but I utterly reject everything you've accused me of doing here. I have never, in any capacity, interacted with your ex boyfriend and you know that full well.

 I have seven scars on my inner left thigh that were deep enough to have not faded. I have four on my right thigh. For a while, I moved towards alcohol as a coping mechanism and that's something I'm just starting to be weened off of. I actually still have the pistol I tried killing myself with last summer after my mother lost her job and began sinking into alcoholism, coupled with a horrible falling out with my own ex and the death of my grandmother. My girlfriend is currently on anti-depressants and recovering from her last suicide attempt, and that's something that has rocked me deeply. One of my best friends, somebody on this site, suffers deeply from depression and that is something that takes a heavy toll on me at times. I've talked about this extensively here on Sploder. I understand how it feels to be close to somebody that's just dangling on the edge: that is why I was so incredibly angry at your mockery of my girlfriend. One of the most terrifying, heart-rending moments of my life was hearing her tell me that she tried to OD, and I still blame myself for not immediately taking action.

 So go splode yourself. I am repulsed by the fact that you would levy an accusation of that degree at me in order to slander me. I firmly reject these baseless, horrific accusations. I have no desire to continue this fighting with you, hence why I've blocked you on discord. Just please, please leave me alone. I am glad that you're willing to admit to having mocked my girlfriend and I'm glad you're willing to admit to having lied to the community here about it, but I am equally angered by the fact that you would accuse me of something like this. Please just leave me alone.

 Just please, never think of me again. If I have to, I will leave the community, but I genuinely do not want more conflict with you.

20
General / Re: on a more wholesome note
« on: June 12, 2018, 02:14 PM »
yeah well. I like me cat.

21
General / Re: on a more wholesome note
« on: June 12, 2018, 09:57 AM »
cat.

22
General / Re: on a more wholesome note
« on: June 11, 2018, 06:09 PM »
Too bad for you, I like dogs
Too bad for you, this is a cat discussion forum now.

23
General / Re: Drama free thread
« on: June 11, 2018, 06:08 PM »
Fish is absolutely not disgusting but I know something that is
my diet is basically fish, eggs, and yogurt. Fish is god tier food.

24
Personal Exhibition / Re: Pictures of people on sploder
« on: June 11, 2018, 06:07 PM »

25
General / on a more wholesome note
« on: June 11, 2018, 06:05 PM »


here is my love. Sploder is now a cat discussion forum.

26
General / Re: hey anew
« on: June 11, 2018, 05:26 PM »
I guess the best way would be to start this from the beginning. First, Wind and I were actually friends that drifted apart more and more for various reasons back in late 2016. I'm sure a lot of you can remember me in early 2014 through early 2016 as being one of those edgy Communists. I will say the fact that I did agree with Wind on a lot of things could be the reason why we became friends in the first place. Well, more like "debate buddies", if you will. The reason we started drifting apart was due to me getting out of the Communist phase in late 2016. As I started to disagree with Wind more and more, he started distancing himself from me more often. I guess you can say that, yes, the reason why Wind started hating me wasn't originally due to insults thrown back and forth and harassments, but due to political differences (which looking back, was a really childish thing that had happened between us).
sure, if you want to completely whitewash all personal nuance and paint it as le wind getting triggered over politics. We were never really friends, and you basically fabricated this entire section. I dare you: find any evidence of us actually having a friendship during this time period. It didn't happen and you're an actual liar.
 
I'd guess around early to mid 2017 was when it started to change from political to just personal reasons. Originally, because I disagreed with Wind and stated my political beliefs that I started to resonate more to, he started to become disgusted with me and started calling me either a Fascist or a Neo-Nazi because I became more Conservative and less Socialist. 2017, of course, was a really hectic year. I'm not defending what I said but I will explain that in 2017 I faced a lot of stress and with Wind insulting me and me taking the bait, I got more and more pissed off until I finally just started to insult him with a few messages that, looking back, I realize was an extremely idiotic thing for me to do, due to the fact that he could use those insults I said in order to further insult me and start to make things go in a vicious cycle.
ah yes, clearly my calling you a nazi had no basis in reality.

Late 2017 comes, and I was trying to make amends with Wind. Even though he has constantly insulted me (both in DMs, PMs, and the Sploder discord) I would try to either ignore him or become friends again with him, though most likely because of the insults in Sploder Discord mid-2017, though the constant provoking behavior Wind would do in DMs and the Forums would make me stop trying and give up. I will say it was a poor decision of me to "feed the troll", for lack of a better word. Although it became increasingly hard to not respond through the fake DMs and assumptions that Wind would post both on the public discord group and on the Forums.
sure, all presented without a single inch of evidence.

Present day, Wind posted the fake DMs of me insulting her girlfriend that garnered even more backlash than the previous fake DMs. Now, Goldoptimus and a few others can vouch for me when I say that Wind has a record for slandering and making other people appear as though they've said or done something when they really haven't. Wind posts the pictures in the Sploder Discord, I tell people it's fake, I go AFK for ten or twenty minutes while I'm busy doing something else, I come back and notice I've been banned from the discord group. I know I can't convince you completely that the DMs are fake, but I do ask you to use your honest, unbiased judgement when it comes to screencap of DMs such as those.

 Alright, so I went back into the discord, and looked at a few holes in what Mr. Anew actually said. This is essentially the closest I'm going to get to hard, factual evidence that supports my claims about what you said concerning Hannah. I've emailed the Discord support service asking for hard records of the chat log, which might provide more definitive proof. Until then, I've assembled a few videos that, at the very least, heavily suggest that Anew here isn't actually telling the entire truth.

 I've posted the video evidence pointing out the fact that a Barracks member is leaking content out to Anew. None of this is hard, but it's essentially undeniable and should make you question what's happening here.

 This clip right here is particularly interesting, because it contains the remnants of Anew's mockery of my girlfriend's self harm. Here was the original screencap The video footage pretty clearly provides evidence of a weird comment gap in the responses between bad the picture of me he posted and what I seem to be talking about. Here's a more readable, zoomed in version that corresponds perfectly with the video where you can clearly see my concern in response to you mentioning Hannah, and my immediate response to your actions.
 
 I think that is certainly the most damning evidence here, but I'd like to go a bit further. This line, where you mock me for responding poorly to your "insult". Huh. Who would have guessed I would respond poorly to you mocking my girlfriend's self harm...

 I am also uniquely revolted by this comment you made earlier, after I quit replying to you. I almost have to wonder why: why would you complain about being banned from the discord whereas a Soldier making a comment about cutting/suicide, a phrase that carries a heavy implication that you did something similar, wouldn't be punished while you're banned.

 You're not even a good liar. It is one thing entirely when you're just insulting me: I wouldn't have even commented here if thats all that happened. But the fact that you're able to joke about something so clearly not okay, delete it, pretend like it never happened and try to turn it on me to make me look bad is awful. What you said was absolutely not acceptable. I know you deal with depression as well, so I can't help but be beyond confused as to what drove you to believe that this was an appropriate thing to say.

27
General / Re: hey anew
« on: June 11, 2018, 02:01 PM »
Here's the picture in question:





 Anew's argument rests on his claim that the above photos are manufactured. I have no objective way of proving that, especially considering the particularly inflammatory lines in question have been deleted from his end. I'll leave it to the reader to decide, on their own, which of us is in the right. I make, nor have I ever made, no attempt to hide the unbelievable amount of contempt I harbor for Anew.

There is a reason why the discord crew in particular is so adamantly against him: because that is where he is the most actively inflammatory. It's been toned down publicly, but I'm sure that many members of the discord can vouch for the multiple situations in which Anew had insulted me, attacked me, or flamed me. The thing that really, really did it for me was when he had the audacity to go into my reddit and find a picture of me asking for advice on /r/depression after I attempted suicide in late 2017 in order to ridicule me, in response to me pulling some content from his reddit account that implied he held far-right, fascistic political beliefs.

 Beyond that, it's just been... countless stupid arguments, insults, and attacks (sometimes on both sides, although the matter of scale is very different). What has really, seriously messed with me is his abjectly horrible mockery of my girlfriend's self-harm, something that carries an incredible amount of weight to me, and something that I've discussed at lengths on the Discord. I know that nothing I can say, without any hard proof, can be ultimately condemning so for that purpose, I would like to bring to light that many of these attacks have been public. The reason Anew is so widely disliked, particularly on the Discord, isn't primarily because of people disagree with your politics, or because they like me, or anything along those lines: it's because most of them have seen, publicly, in the discord, how you've attacked and inflamed me, and even went back and deleted those comments when I brought them up at a later date.

 I definitely have said bad things about you, and I completely stand my ground in regards to the vast majority of those comments. I'm not convinced that you're a particularly good person, and you frequently say things that I find deeply offensive and, frankly, at times horrific.

 So I guess... if I had to tl;dr this: quit.

 Here's a collection of other content that I feel might go a ways in perhaps justifying my feelings. It's up to you guys to determine whether or not you feel it's real or fake, although I personally lack the technical nor theatrical ability to fabricate this wide an array of content.

http://forums.sploder.com/index.php/topic,522215.msg6602730.html#msg6602730

https://i.imgur.com/GLCEBVQ.png

https://i.imgur.com/zMqVEii.png

https://i.imgur.com/Vbvkr9F.png

https://i.imgur.com/9u7b4Ba.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/n241nTL.png

28
General / Re: y'all are are ultra-cuties
« on: June 05, 2018, 04:53 PM »
but not mai

29
General / y'all are ultra-cuties
« on: June 05, 2018, 04:51 PM »
just saying

30
ok

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