Author Topic: Something I'm working on  (Read 2798 times)

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2013, 09:29 pm »
I would look into the Quake port to flash and see how it does things, I think it would WOW people more than a Wolfenstein 3d style game.
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Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2013, 09:35 pm »
Also, saying it is a wolfenstein-like implementation here is a misnomer, it doesn't appear that Raycasting is being uses to render the scene in Geoff's prototype.


 

Offline lcraniuml

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2013, 09:40 pm »
this makes me wanrt you babies geoff. will we be able to have guns?
 

Offline 10000truths

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2013, 09:41 pm »
While I would give anything for a FPS creator, I see a couple problems.

1. 3D rendering would demand quite a high CPU usage compared to the other creators.
2. I imagine that being able to use uploaded graphics for rendering scenery will either create extremely long loading times, or will siphon even more CPU usage, simply because of the sheer amount of data retrieval that would have to be done to load the graphics onto the game. I know that PPG's with a large amount of different graphics on them are quite laggy, and I imagine that this would especially be the case with an FPS creator.
 

Offline geoff

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2013, 09:42 pm »
I was going to do a raycaster, but unfortunately I am not skilled enough to do so while at the same time keeping performance high on mobile. The demo you see here can also run on iOS pretty well.

Also, I don't want to do a direct port of doom/quake because I don't want to make a game that's only a shooter, and definitely not with guns or blood and gore. This one would probably use medieval weapons and I wouldn't allow gore.
 

Offline xxcoldblade

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2013, 09:44 pm »
I like the idea of the game creator, but I do think there will be lag issues and loading times. And Geoff, please check your pms.
 

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2013, 09:49 pm »
While I would give anything for a FPS creator, I see a couple problems.

1. 3D rendering would demand quite a high CPU usage compared to the other creators.
2. I imagine that being able to use uploaded graphics for rendering scenery will either create extremely long loading times, or will siphon even more CPU usage, simply because of the sheer amount of data retrieval that would have to be done to load the graphics onto the game. I know that PPG's with a large amount of different graphics on them are quite laggy, and I imagine that this would especially be the case with an FPS creator.
1. This is why Quake is so impressive, look up some of the tricks it does.
2. Possibly limit how many unique graphics can be put into a game?
I was going to do a raycaster, but unfortunately I am not skilled enough to do so while at the same time keeping performance high on mobile. The demo you see here can also run on iOS pretty well.

Also, I don't want to do a direct port of doom/quake because I don't want to make a game that's only a shooter, and definitely not with guns or blood and gore. This one would probably use medieval weapons and I wouldn't allow gore.
Raycasting can be quite resource intensive, I understand your pain. I would base the basic rendering style off of the Quake port and go off from there, I don't care for the gameplay to be exact. Possibly (to avoid the gun issue and the first person combat issue *cough*ElderScrolls*cough*) you could have the player have various spells that he/she can cast in a similar manner to Skyrim. As far as running on IOS goes, possibly have "IOS" and "PC" type creators handled where PC gets maps with verticle features but IOS gets a few extra toys to play with (Say... Teleporters or Extra powerups) and you can play either on PC but only create them on IOS (that way people have incentive to buy the app).


 

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2013, 09:50 pm »
Also, the "Two unique creators" thing could run on the same engine and limiting space would forcefully fix the lag issue.


 

Offline lcraniuml

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2013, 09:53 pm »
no gore? :(
 

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2013, 09:54 pm »


 

Offline geoff

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2013, 09:59 pm »
Good ideas. The quake port (and the doom port) are using Adobe Alchemy, which takes C++ code and converts it into Flash bytecode. That makes it quite a bit tougher to customize. I looked into it once and it was opaque to me. There were no docs, and Adobe Alchemy was pretty much unsupported. I may play with it again at some point.

Another thing to consider is the complexity of the creator itself. If you look at Quake editors, they are pretty much full-on 3d modeling apps. Way too complex for me to build in a reasonable amount of time. Even the Doom editors are complex. They are on the edge of what I could create reasonably.

If I were to take something like the polygon editing of the original shooter game and use that to create flat worlds like you see above, do you think it would be enough? I think, though, the simplest for people to understand would be a basic grid editor like Algorithm Crew, but with a larger playfield.

 

Offline lcraniuml

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2013, 10:00 pm »
Alchemy
full metal alchemist is a good show
 

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2013, 10:13 pm »
Good ideas. The quake port (and the doom port) are using Adobe Alchemy, which takes C++ code and converts it into Flash bytecode. That makes it quite a bit tougher to customize. I looked into it once and it was opaque to me. There were no docs, and Adobe Alchemy was pretty much unsupported. I may play with it again at some point.

Another thing to consider is the complexity of the creator itself. If you look at Quake editors, they are pretty much full-on 3d modeling apps. Way too complex for me to build in a reasonable amount of time. Even the Doom editors are complex. They are on the edge of what I could create reasonably.

If I were to take something like the polygon editing of the original shooter game and use that to create flat worlds like you see above, do you think it would be enough? I think, though, the simplest for people to understand would be a basic grid editor like Algorithm Crew, but with a larger playfield.


I had an old concept mockup of how a simple interface could look (It was a sort of cross between the PPG and shooter creators with a nice little cheat idea I came up with to allow for easy 2d editing for simple things), give me about 30min and I will find the image :D

Shame about the Adobe Alchemist thing.



 

Offline lumberjay

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2013, 10:20 pm »
Would there be jumping in this game type, or would it be entirely grounded gameplay?
Majoring in Political Science with a minor in Philosophy
 

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2013, 10:22 pm »
Got it:


Either way, let me try and explain how 3d works:

You can set the max and minheight of the polygon you have selected (I forgot to include the two types), max is how high it goes, min is how low it goes. 3 units=player height, the player can walk up 1 unit without issue, the player can look and attack over 2 height but not walk over it. Slope lets you make it sloped (IE: say [] was your platform, if you apply slope to it it could become [\), reverse slope effects the bottom (you cwould get to it by moving the scroll bar under the editing stuff). Texture changes the graphic put on it (possibly add in the option to have different textures for different axises). Using this can let you create simple games very quickly but still leave plenty of room to improve in skills.


 

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2013, 10:23 pm »
Would there be jumping in this game type, or would it be entirely grounded gameplay?
In the current implementation, jumping would likely be impossible (unless Geoff is using a more doom like drawing method, but jumping would then lead to a bit of distortion).


 

Offline Omega

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2013, 10:42 pm »
Same here xD

I wonder if Omega see this thread and goes all like "omfg kjfbiksdjhncdshnsiduhnfcsdfsidh DOOM RIPOFF"
Doesn't have guns.

#notadoomripoff
 

Offline Ryan Lewis

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2013, 10:44 pm »
Just yes!
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Offline 7grant2

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2013, 10:47 pm »
I was going to do a raycaster, but unfortunately I am not skilled enough to do so while at the same time keeping performance high on mobile. The demo you see here can also run on iOS pretty well.

Also, I don't want to do a direct port of doom/quake because I don't want to make a game that's only a shooter, and definitely not with guns or blood and gore. This one would probably use medieval weapons and I wouldn't allow gore.
Perhaps not gore, but its an amazing example.

Your hardest challenge will be to make the game creator have a large variety of tools to make a variety of different games. Please oh please do not limit the size of the game, at least that much, because that is just a killjoy.
Good ideas. The quake port (and the doom port) are using Adobe Alchemy, which takes C++ code and converts it into Flash bytecode. That makes it quite a bit tougher to customize. I looked into it once and it was opaque to me. There were no docs, and Adobe Alchemy was pretty much unsupported. I may play with it again at some point.

Another thing to consider is the complexity of the creator itself. If you look at Quake editors, they are pretty much full-on 3d modeling apps. Way too complex for me to build in a reasonable amount of time. Even the Doom editors are complex. They are on the edge of what I could create reasonably.

If I were to take something like the polygon editing of the original shooter game and use that to create flat worlds like you see above, do you think it would be enough? I think, though, the simplest for people to understand would be a basic grid editor like Algorithm Crew, but with a larger playfield.


Let me point this out because its what a lot of people think: Algorithm Crew is too repetitive and boring. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it has needed to be addressed. There is no variety to gameplay, puzzles are near-impossible to incorporate (doors do not count), the map size is too small, and there just isn't a variety of enemies or interesting ways to defeat them.

Another thing bad about the AC (Algorithm Crew) is that the playing field is way too limited. The 10x10 is not enough to meet the standards of a decent game.

I'm not here to complain about the AC, but if you were to make a 3D Dungeon Maker (I'm assuming a name at this point), you should definitely think about making the game as diverse as possible. You may not need the polish of Quake; however, you will need to make sure it is does not have the dry boring nature of the AC.

My suggestion? Combine the Shooter and AC. Make it work like Shooter with polygons for the flat map, except have the points directly fixed to square points. This way, angles are possible to create in the map and create a different style of texture. To add a wall, a user would simply create a polygon (that is usually just a line) and instead of taking up whole block, it takes up a line.


If you want to get fancy and add a Physics engine like that of the Physics maker, go right ahead lol, just make sure that the basis of gameplay can be widely varied.

I might suggest adding different floors to a level? Take this game for a great example http://gamejolt.com/games/adventure/i-can-t-escape/12752/
 

Offline moolatycoon

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2013, 10:47 pm »
Obviously the camera will need work but it looks promising.

Awesome
 

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2013, 10:58 pm »
Perhaps not gore, but its an amazing example.

Your hardest challenge will be to make the game creator have a large variety of tools to make a variety of different games. Please oh please do not limit the size of the game, at least that much, because that is just a killjoy. Let me point this out because its what a lot of people think: Algorithm Crew is too repetitive and boring. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it has needed to be addressed. There is no variety to gameplay, puzzles are near-impossible to incorporate (doors do not count), the map size is too small, and there just isn't a variety of enemies or interesting ways to defeat them.

Another thing bad about the AC (Algorithm Crew) is that the playing field is way too limited. The 10x10 is not enough to meet the standards of a decent game.

I'm not here to complain about the AC, but if you were to make a 3D Dungeon Maker (I'm assuming a name at this point), you should definitely think about making the game as diverse as possible. You may not need the polish of Quake; however, you will need to make sure it is does not have the dry boring nature of the AC.

My suggestion? Combine the Shooter and AC. Make it work like Shooter with polygons for the flat map, except have the points directly fixed to square points. This way, angles are possible to create in the map and create a different style of texture. To add a wall, a user would simply create a polygon (that is usually just a line) and instead of taking up whole block, it takes up a line.


If you want to get fancy and add a Physics engine like that of the Physics maker, go right ahead lol, just make sure that the basis of gameplay can be widely varied.

I might suggest adding different floors to a level? Take this game for a great example http://gamejolt.com/games/adventure/i-can-t-escape/12752/
Funny how close your idea for the creator was to mine XD


 

Offline 7grant2

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2013, 11:16 pm »
Funny how close your idea for the creator was to mine XD
Well its about the best Geoff can do xD

Another idea would be you create the game in first person, and you can look in 90 degree implements and create stuff that way.
 

Offline dogfox3000

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2013, 11:17 pm »
Abiltiy to add custom skins for enemys and items would be cool.
 

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2013, 11:45 pm »
Abiltiy to add custom skins for enemys and items would be cool.
Once again, in my original thread XD

Well its about the best Geoff can do xD

Another idea would be you create the game in first person, and you can look in 90 degree implements and create stuff that way.
Or do it Minecraft or Cube engine style where you do it "in game"


 

Offline 7grant2

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2013, 11:46 pm »
Once again, in my original thread XD
Or do it Minecraft or Cube engine style where you do it "in game"
Minecraft style would be great! Surely it can be difficult to create a moving camera for in-game development... but I can be wrong.
 

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2013, 11:53 pm »
Minecraft style would be great! Surely it can be difficult to create a moving camera for in-game development... but I can be wrong.
Yeah, both engines had to be designed around it (Cube especially considering the visuals it pulls off ) and you need to be careful about complexity (Cube 2 is a pain to get into).


 

Offline 7grant2

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2013, 11:55 pm »
I'm starting to work with Unity so I understand complexity xD
 

Offline theravicale

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2013, 11:58 pm »
I'm starting to work with Unity so I understand complexity xD
Same here, got my first game out of the way. I have a basic understanding of a good portion of its functions. The main thing I need to work on is my programming ability, though that shouldn't be much of an issue considering that we will have 3-4 programmers next year and they will likely need me for art because I'm the only decent one at texturing (there is one programmer with 3d modeling skills in addition to me).


 

Offline 7grant2

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2013, 12:03 am »
Same here, got my first game out of the way. I have a basic understanding of a good portion of its functions. The main thing I need to work on is my programming ability, though that shouldn't be much of an issue considering that we will have 3-4 programmers next year and they will likely need me for art because I'm the only decent one at texturing (there is one programmer with 3d modeling skills in addition to me).
Lol I gotta learn all that stuff on my own xD
 

Offline darkluigi

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Re: Something I'm working on
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2013, 12:07 am »
Another Epic Idea from Geoff!!! ;D